So, to start, it's story time (it's a quick one) of an argument I won (I usually win arguments, but this was the most clear cut case of it I've ever seen) The idiot's name was changed to explain that he's an idiot:
Idiot: Alternate combat was in Greyhawk, so White Box games are flawed because they don't account for CHAINMAIL hurr durr.
Me: No, Alt combat was in the brown box, pg 19 of M&M (implying that idiot's brain is flawed, not White Box games). Maybe try Spellcraft & Swordplay, it does what you're wanting.
Idiot: But they wanted you to use CHAINMAIL in OD&D!
Me: No, they didn't care, here's the passage in OD&D saying that (bottom of pg 18 in M&M).
Idiot: But, but, you should (because I like that and therefore that's the fucking hill I'm gonna die on).
Me, via PM: Please don't be that guy. Don't be the guy who won't concede defeat, and cleaves to fallacious notions regardless of facts. There's just too much of that going on this day and age. I am completely content that you like CHAINMAIL more than the alt system, hell I even threw you a bone in my first response because I know an OSR game that went the CHAINMAIL route. I don't pretend the alt system is better*, though I do enjoy it more and it's hard denying that the entire hobby was built around it and it's successive iterations. I'm done with this convo, hopefully next time we'll be discussing something we both find subjective.
Idiot: More dumb shit, beating a dead horse, not really important considering what came before and what comes next.
Me: Attempting to respond and prove Idiot wrong again, and attempt to end convo again via traditional means of agreeing to disagree,,,
Idiot: THIS USER HAS BLOCKED YOU BECAUSE THEY'RE A COWARD!
Me (via edited PM): Congratulations, you're that guy!
Idiot (via open channel): Bu bu bu you don't get 4 attacks at level 4 with whitebox?!?! Don't you see my problem?
Me: (I didn't continue responding because the block told me he had nothing more to add, therefore I win this argument handily).
*What I didn't say was I don't have to pretend. It is demonstrably, historically, and evidentially better. But I was being nice.
So to start I want to say, This interaction actually happened. Secondarily, blocking someone via any social media, especially after they have entered into a discussion with you, means you 100% concede their point (I mean, unless it's a spammer). You are saying "Uncle!". You are also unintentionally confirming their superior knowledge of the subject matter. You have nothing to say, so you don't want to hear more because all it will do is make you look more foolish, and the hole you dug yourself will only get deeper. That's what that means regardless of what you tell yourself to make you feel better about gagging someone. You are pointing out that you are wasting their time, and so you project that to them and block them to pretend they are wasting your time.
CHAINMAIL: A shitty wargame from the 70s. Shitty enough that while it was initially integrated with OD&D, the forefathers had the wisdom to include an alternate combat system, which would become the foundation of going on 40 years of gaming. That means it's better.
Spellcraft & Swordplay: In the 2000s Jason Vey asked the question nobody cared enough to: What if OD&D really used CHAINMAIL? Then he birthed this turd. I assume nobody's ever played it, and can find no trace of such. Looks like after a decade it has three reviews on DTRPG, two of which from featured/shill reviewers, one of which wouldn't even give it 5 stars. There is no discussion about this game anywhere, and it's electrum sales status had to come from being integrated in a relief bundle at some point in time, else people just buy it because of curiosity then delete it as soon as they see it's defining features. It has it's own very wide lane, too bad there's oncoming traffic.
If you read the initial interaction above, you know what that "feature" is. You roll a shitload of attacks to get "successes" and those translate to rolled dice of damage. Basically a ridiculously cumbersome die pool system a la Storyteller (a rant for another time). Thank fucking god it failed entirely. Each class had an advancement table that indicates the following and I quote:
"Note that under "Attacks," individual bonuses are "pips" that may be added to any one or more attacks in a progression, to the maximum. Thus, a character listed as having "7+2" attacks gains 7 attacks in a round, and may add +2 to a single one of these attacks, or may add +1 to any two attacks, at the player's discretion."
A 5th level warrior (half of max in the list) has 5+4. He also has the special OD&D ability that essentially doubles his attacks when it comes to 1HD creatures. At 10th level, this gets to be 18 fucking dice rolled to attack. Then he has to choose how to distribute the plusses. Then the camera pans back to the DM who's hung himself in the corner.
If you don't see the problem with this, you're a fool. Rolling that many goddamn dice and figuring out hits, distributing plusses. then rolling for damage on those hits. And yes, the monsters get a fuckton of attacks too. But really it's just some needless abstraction. Wanna see me fix it in like a paragraph?
OK, so a maxed out fighter in this game is rolling 8 attacks a round. A maxed out Dragon has 20 HD. Let's cut both in half. 4 attacks a round, 10 HD. Let's do it again. 2 attacks a round, 5 HD. These are all equivalent. The combat will be much faster if the numbers get smaller and people aren't rolling so many goddamn dice. This is an understood mathematical truth, and one of the reasons CHAINMAIL died a quick death. It looks like Jason Vey himself sorta gave up on this when he got to the monster section, all the monsters are simply fighters with minor added flavor. Dragons, Giants, and Elementals get some extra mechanical stuff, but otherwise as a GM you're just running fighters against the players. Snore.
The founders of D&D knew this, that's why they got rid of it with the Alternate Combat system. Then, when AD&D came about, the SAME AUTHOR completely disregarded CHAINMAIL because it was trash and he knew it. This is irrefutable, as when AD&D came around Gygax had complete creative control, and used it to essentially make the game he wanted. CHAINMAIL was never meant to be D&D's system regardless of what neckbeard historians and armchair gamers say. The game was meant to evolve, and it's first evolution was getting the fuck away from CHAINMAIL. Now it's not taken every correct step in it's course, there were lots of problems and mistakes along the way, but isn't it telling that CHAINMAIL never came back into the core of D&D?
UPDATE: The person I was arguing with, who I never really said a mean word to (the worst has been reprinted here, I never called them any names, at worst I implied they were wrongheaded and stubborn), took the disagreement and their own cowardice so hard that he left the social media platform we were conversing on. That can't be coincidence. How weak do you have to be to run screaming away from someone based on a disagreement over rolling dice in an elfgame? That's not the kind of person I generally want to interact with, so I'm glad they are gone (but I DID NOT block him). Bear in mind I never spread any gossip/meanness about the interaction on the platform to anyone. They did do so to me, as I was unceremoniously blocked by one of my other acquaintances on the site (who has since unblocked me because, I assume, the other guy left, I say interesting things, and lastly he had no cause to block me in the first place). I can only assume the coward expected me to do the same high-school bullshit that he was doing to me, more projection, and thought I'd be kicking him while he was down. He doesn't know I'm the better person, therefore I don't actually do that. Because if I did I'd be a coward like him.
I simply blogged about it here where I'm known by a different handle, the idiot isn't called out by name or handle, and generally nobody reads my blog anyway. This blog is essentially something I can come back to and read later.
